Maybe a deck of bridge cards? They are instantly recognizable. If we left game pieces, what about a blotter? An ink jar? But on topic…. With that in mind, it does make a bit of sense now. A loaded die is really the only game piece that is more in control than the others. He is the loaded die of the team. Or just a name that sounded good for a company. Or not. And there is no way you can sweep the wedding ring under the carpet. Its a foolproof guide that remains consistent throughout the movie.
Nolan was cleaver with that one. Its no coincidence. The ring is definitely an indicator — but of what? This makes zero sense. Nolan did not through in James Bond into this movie because James Bond is real.
Personally I buy it that Nolan built Two equally plausible and possible options into this movie. Both work. Both are fun to debate and argue. Both have holes, weaknesses and strengths. Makes these conversations entertaining. Its an item Cobb is wearing that has obvious personal value yet only has it on in his dream states….
To go less is to ignore the consistency of the rings appearance throughout the whole movie and relegate it to a costume mistake???. Or what a huge coincidence?
Dream states are obviously portrayed and so are the awakened states. He cut the final scene where the totem drops to make for a better ending and leave it on a suspenseful note with us questioning even more the ending. He hardly makes any serious attempt to make the rest of the movie unclear.
And besides how you NOT have the ring as part of your interpretation of te movie? You pull the wildest conclusions from What is not seen and what is not understood by you.
Something so very much glaring in your face like the ring cannot be ignored. Cobbs Totem is really his wedding ring, remember the totem rule, dont let anyone touch it. And he has taken Mols totem thus broke the rule and needing a new totem he wears a ring in dreams and doesnt when not in dreams. Look before he meets the girl architect then the training dream and look at his ring finger.
We just never see him acknowledge it and we see him using the top as his totem and also he tells others its his totem. The ring is definitely an indicator of when Cobb is in reality or a dream but whether the intention is to indicate to us the audience or to Cobb is debatable. Also I think people confuse the rules of totems. If someone touches it the totem only becomes void when you are in that persons dream.
Much better put Dana. Not touching it is a precaution against that person consciously or subconsciously manipulating your totem if you were in their dream. I posted a pile of long quotes from specific points in Inception that may be helpful in understanding the movie better.
Hey all! Another thing is Mombasa. Let me explain. Now when Arthur is describing to Ariadne the technique of setting the dream level boundaries with paradoxes like Penrose stairs he is asked by Ariadne how big are the levels. He responds saying anything from a floor to a whole city In limbo Cobb and Mal built a huge city.
Andreas, Great questions all. But this one scene was a BIG piece of evidence that it was in fact a dream. The same building next door? The same room with the same billowing curtains? The dream-like qualities of this experience are way way too coincidental for me.
Not sure, we only know what Nolan has shown us. The one that totally baffles me is Cobbe. So accepting that we are actually watching a dream, it has to be a really really huge one and the characters are set apart from each other. I personally maintain that the whole concept of the dream sharing technology is a dream.
That the architecting of dreams is a dream. That the whole Cobol run around the world business as pointed out by Mal is a sham that only a dream would conceive.
And for him to have forgotten creating or Mal creating it seems a bit of a stretch for sure. So kudos to you. You are correct. It just may be one of the clues that the sequence of events was a dream. What I find disturbing is that any junior grade detective would be able to tell that the jumper was NOT pushed from the window in the room that was in disarray. Cobb took it as his own but it was made to work for Mal. He may have been a regular guy with an idea.
Think about it … if it was an Inception induced dream, and Cobb was the dreamer, then that would suggest that there was an architect. Ever have a dream concerning some small idea you had and in the dream your idea becomes fully realized. I have. Great text! When she finishes building it, she knocks on table. Eddie, I definitely agree with you I think he was a normal guy with an idea and we are seeing that fleshed out. But I would say that its probably deeper than a simple dreamer, dreaming an idea.
I think there is a deeper state of dream here that allows for complexity of time and space that we see here. But the difference in theory here is moot. I originally thought that the movie was a dream created by the dream-machine, but like you said, that quickly falls apart and becomes unsupportable.
Aru, I like your theory of the smiling Bishop. Took me a while to fully understand what you meant. But I think I get it now. Thanks everyone for continuing the conversation. I am still confused as to why cobbs totem seems to act the opposite of others. The loaded die in real life will always fall on certain numbers because they have been tweaked and in someone elses dream they would act as normal die and throw up random numbers… Makes sense as the dreamer would want things to act as close to normal as possible… But cobbs one is odd, in real life it acts as any top in the world would act, it falls… But in a dream it goes forever, why would the dreamer do that?
So in summary cobbs die seems to work in the opposite way from others? Any ideas why or am i missing something? It does seem to be backwards for Cobb. Spin forever in the real world and stop in the dream… Hrnnn.
Interesting catch all the same. Thanks for the post. Cobbs just acts normal in real life and very oddly in a dream, there is no way the dreamer would create a dream where a to would spin forever.
Im not sure its ever stated but the Top could be weighted in such a way where it falls quicker or even at a specific time…like it was always fall within 3 seconds. Arthur tells Ariadne that the layout of a dream could be anywhere from a floor to a city. Now, granted, maybe Cobb is just an absolutely amazing architect that can form an entire world of dreamscape, but then why would his father -in-law? It repeatedly mentions that Cobb refuses to build layouts any more.
So, what? His subconscious is doing all of the building without his permission? Characters repeatedly refer to this. And all the while, Cobb is off doing something else. How can these scenes be going on without him in then — like the kiss? I doubt it. If Cobb is still stuck in limbo the entire movie, how could he be transitioning between levels of the dreams?
He does it many, many times, weaving in and out of them, leaving some people behind. From the outside view, Mal woke up first. Do you remember when Cobb is talking about what he did to Mal and her sense of reality? This was emphasized when he shut the door on said top spinning consistently. It never stumbled. At the very end of the movie, right before the screen goes black, the top stumbles.
Well, then, consider that at least once during the movie, instead of letting the top stop moving completely, he grabbed it as soon as it began to stumble and considered this proof that he was, in fact, in reality.
And the top did stumble. Someone mentioned that it would make more sense for Mal to be in the same hotel window. If they were in the same room, he could stop her from jumping out the window. And as for the rooms being identical, there are two very easy explanations: One, there are looooads of hotel companies who build two right next to each other.
This fact remains clear throughout the movie: to get out of limbo, you have to kill yourself. Option one: Cobb shoots Saito and then shoots himself.
They wake up. Option two: Cobb fails to shoot Saito. Now, why would he fail? By shooting him. Therefore, they must have woken up. And my last and final point is about the totems. Including races around the world. The rules as I understand it is that an architect designs a map and then a mark is brought in to inhabit it with their subconscious. This is a clever point — but its problematic not only for me but the entire movie and the rules around who the dreamer is and what can happen within their subconscious.
This does need to be explained if it is a run of the mill ordinary dream. Have you ever had a dream within a dream yourself? You wake up and then something truly horrific happens? Maybe I need counseling, but I have. Freaky Deaky. Outside view? Mal wakes up first into Layer 2. The same layer she kills her self. Or are you making a different point here? Trying to understand. Could be. You see, its insane to discuss this movie with me!
I maintain that her being across the way in another window is a perfect dream device. Nothing more. Makes sense and is logical when we watch it happen, but when you think about it a millisecond it falls apart. As for Cobb stopping her — um, not really, all she had to do would have been to just jump before he got there. He would see that as an inconsistency to have her following him around. Layer 3 and lower — fair game. It makes logical sense that his brain would have her manifesting his dreams there.
I used to believe it was really Mal dreamjumping in — but its too big of a logical leap to hold together. I thought this to be true. That is how Cobb explains it anyway about when he and Mal are stuck in limbo. Train — blamo — reality. Unless he left out details. Eames is NOT there with the paddles. There is no kick. Ariadne commits suicide and voila — ice fortress world. So this is far from a forgone conclusion. Really well thought out ideas and points. And I enjoyed walking through the logical exercise.
I basically think Inception is a rorschach test. And that, dear Raven, is a good thing for you! Great comments. Really well thought out. Inception never mentions a generic dream or coma where anything and everything can happen, and we can really only go by what we see in the movie.
If there are other people — not just projections, but people — in the dream, obviously they can be off doing their own thing.
If not, he would be the only one. My point had to do with what I said earlier about scenes without Cobb in them. Mal woke up first, so Cobb could not have remembered her waking up — but when we saw the scene, we saw her waking up. To deduce the truth, we have to use the proof the movie gave us. Why layer 3? Whoa, whoa, back up. Who said Ariadne committed suicide? Mal and Cobb laid on train tracks and were killed; we saw Ariadne wake up in the ice fortress layer before she actually died, because the kick woke her up in the next level.
Therefore, my point remains. That ended it for me; when I see proof, I accept proof. Eames was a thief and a forger. When he sat at the table, he had only two chips in his hand, and none on the table. Cobb offers to buy a drink.
Then we see Eames cashing in a nice double stack of chips that came from nowhere. What I believe was happening here is that, being a thief and a forger, Eames had made his own bogus poker chips and was cashing them in to steal from the casino. Cobb then notices that Eames misspelled something on the chips. If he did realize this, then what — if anything — does this belie? Sorry for my english.. I believe that if I know it I can suppose where is the reality and where is a dream.
It is clearly stated that your totem is YOUR totem. No one else is even allowed to touch it. She left it behind on the floor of the tattered apartment the night she committed suicide. And afterwards he takes it and uses it for himself. Arthur warns Ariadne not to let anyone touch it only because that would then give them power over her.
Gutted that I still cant find out why cobba totem acts differently to others as per my posts above. Any idea guys? James, Currently posting from my phone and have scrolled through every post on this thread but cannot find your previous post. Disturbing if true! Spinning when it should be stopped and stopped when it should be spinning? Maybe you could repost it for me to review? Would love to answer in detail…. And Jamie, Your post was too clever for me. Not sure exactly your point. So we can assume that they work as normal dice in the dream.
I just wanted to share something. If it was then telling Ariadne would have instantly made his useless. And as others have pointed out, the top as a totem works counter intuitively.
This was right before he was on a phone call with his children. The normal behavior of a top is that after some time gravity and friction will cause it to stop spinning assuming theres no magnets or any tricks, of course. Cobb states that his top will constantly spin in a dream, and stop spinning in real life. Which is of course how a top would work. Now, the idea behind a totem is that nobody else would be able to recreate your totem in their dream. In the case of the top, if Cobb were in someone elses dream they would of course create all tops how they would act in the real world..
In this case, if the top keeps spinning then it does not tell Cobb whether or not he is in a dream, but only tells him if he is not in the dream of someone that knows how his top works. The other possibility is that Cobb purposely tells everyone that in a dream his top is supposed to keep spinning. In this case, every dreamer would create an infinitely spinning top and then Cobb would know. But that seems a little sketchy. Hi guys on iPhone again so will keep brief. My thought is that the dreamer or architect would want to create a dream that appears to be real for whoever is in the dream with them… Like saito knew he was because of the carpet.
So based on that the loaded die in a dream would fall randomly, adrianes chess piece would slide normally etc. Two of course there is cobbs, if ihad him in my dream in order to extract info and knew nothing of his totem I would create the dream so things screened normally as possible. So if I took arthur into my dream the die would fall randomly at which point he would know he was in my dream and if I took cobbs in I would make his totem fall.
Hey there Jeromy, Interesting ideas all — let me add one more rebuttal than the one you point out though. This is a cool theory save for the fact that Arthur specifically states what a totem is to be in this conversation with Ariadne:.
Arthur: So, a totem. Arthur: No, it has to be more unique than that, like — this is a loaded die. See only I know the balance and weight of this particular loaded die. So, the top fits these characteristics, as does the ring. Seems fishy to me. Anyway — back to the liliputians as totem. Clever thought. The children seem to represent reality to him in my opinion. When she's not writing, you can find her trying to learn a new language, watching hockey go Avs! Breakfast food is life and coffee is what makes the world go round.
It was great. By Adrienne Tyler Published Mar 14, Share Share Tweet Email 0. Learn more about the strange world of dreams. Maybe Mal was right; maybe they were still dreaming, and her suicide actually did wake her up. Maybe the entire movie is a dream. Maybe this is why Eames can mysteriously produce casino chips out of thin air. And the movie Inception is, exactly, to the second, 2 hours and 28 minutes long. To do so, Cobb subjects Fischer to a multilayered dream sequence.
By David K. Johnson, Ph. There are a few clues which can help us to question the end of the movie. In Inception the central premise is that of multiple dreams.
0コメント